Reply to S (Posted July 9, 2012 at 10:42 am): …

Comment on Briscoe inquest: Alcohol’s ‘flotsam and jetsam’ forever a burden on police? by Bob Durnan.

Reply to S (Posted July 9, 2012 at 10:42 am):

1. Although it is possible that there may be some people who are only able to drink alcohol legally “on licence”, and it is also possible that “in some circumstances this results in unsafe drinking practices in an effort to quickly consume any alcohol and evade detection by police”, the number of cases of this nature is likely to be insignificant compared to the number of people benefiting from the existence and enforcement of the Banned Drinkers Register and the associated measures.
2. Likewise a day on which take-away alcohol is not sold from retail outlets and pubs is likely to cause far more benefits than problems, and this has been clearly demonstrated in Tennant Creek, for several years after the measure was introduced in the mid-nineties, when the arrangement led to less serious alcohol-related problems occurring, as attested by the police and health staff who worked there at the time, and who argued very strongly for its retention.
3. Re your concern about the welfare of “a significant number of people who are so physically reliant on alcohol that withdrawal can have serious medical consequences and an alcohol free day may actually cause them harm, or create a situation where they resort to desperate measures to obtain alcohol.”
In fact such people would still be able to buy and drink alcohol every day, as the suggestion is simply for a day on which no sales of take-away alcohol are permitted, meaning bars and other licences to sell alcohol for purely on-premise consumption would still be allowed to operate as usual.
4. Re your thoughts that “current alcohol sales times, both on and off premise, potentially create a situation where some consumers are at a peak intoxication level in the early evening, a time when children and other family members are around”, and “perhaps different opening / selling hours could create a situation where consumers have passed the peak intoxication stage by this time and could be ‘sleeping off’ the effects.”
As you say, the “entire issue is obviously a complex one with no easy solutions and unfortunately impacts on all residents of Alice Springs in some way”. However the facts are, for decades prior to the present more restrictive regulations, noisy and often violent drinking was occurring on town camps and other parts of town during the day, early evening and far into the night, even though the bottle-shops were opening at 10am, or in some cases even earlier.
The idea that early opening hours for take-away alcohol will somehow improve domestic and civic amenity and safety is completely mistaken. There is much evidence to indicate that it would be more likely to lead to considerably greater levels of alcohol consumption, and consequent violence and other harms, than is presently occurring. The opportunities for buying and consuming it would increase, and the money left in the collective kitties of the heavy consumers of alcohol at opening times would be considerably greater than is currently the case.

Bob Durnan Also Commented

Briscoe inquest: Alcohol’s ‘flotsam and jetsam’ forever a burden on police?
To Anna Sheridan (Posted July 3, 2012 at 10:03 am):
RE: “statistics from such places – how many lives they turned around, how well they work, do they have enough funding and staff etc.”
I suggest that you try googling the following to see what they put on their web sites.
DASA (Drug and Alcohol Services Association) in Schwartz Crescent;
Aranda House (DASA’s residential detox/treatment/rehab arm on the corner of South Terrace and Kempe St);
CAAAPU (Central Australian Aboriginal Alcohol Programs Unit) on Ragonesi Rd;
ADSCA (Alcohol and Other Drugs Services Central Australia) near the RFDS, opposite the Stuart Lodge;
Bush Mob, moving to the old CAT hostel in Priest St from the old DASA house on Schwartz Crescent;
CAAC Safe and Sober Program, operating out of the old Imparja premises on Leichhardt Terrace;
CAAC Clinic on Gap Rd;
CAAC SEWB – old Imparja building;
Holyoake – Newland St
Alice Springs Hospital
Some of them will have information booths at the Show next weekend, with staff available to answer questions.
But you are right – it would be useful to have an overview of the services and relevant stats. Perhaps a job for Steve Brown in his new role as watchdog of services?

Briscoe inquest: Alcohol’s ‘flotsam and jetsam’ forever a burden on police?
To Anna Sheridan (Posted June 29, 2012 at 3:34 pm): Anna, there are several detox options in Alice, ranging from separate NGO residential facilities for adults and juveniles, to supported home detox. via a government AOD service, a service through the the prison, others through the Aboriginal health service, the hospital, and several other support services. There is usually much more capacity available than actual use made of these detox. options and support services.

Briscoe inquest: Alcohol’s ‘flotsam and jetsam’ forever a burden on police?
Fred (Posted June 28, 2012 at 11.27am): Although you are quite correct in demanding greater degrees of personal responsibility by problem drinkers and their associates, you have got your facts wrong: the Coroner has only heard evidence, testimony by witnesses, and arguments by counsel, and now gone away to write his report. You must be getting the Coroner confused with statements by other parties.
A number of police admitted blame for a long list of failures and disobeying instructions, so it is hardly surprising that they are receiving at least some of the blame. As they admitted in court, the difficulty of their jobs is no excuse for some of the things they did, such as treating the detainee in ways that they had promised, following a previous inquest, would not be repeated; not training staff adequately; not staffing the Watch House adequately; not supervising junior staff adequately; not checking regularly on the detainee; and ignoring the alarms being raised by other witnesses.
When police arrest a person, they have a duty of care for the person. It is quite probable that, if Briscoe had sculled 350ml of rum and gotten into similar physical trouble at the Flynn Drive park, his mates would have called for appropriate help, as they tried to do in the Watch House.
Further, the police themselves have admitted that they need more staff and better systems to deal with these matters properly, with less risk to themselves and their prisoners.
Re Hal Duell (Posted June 28, 2012 at 11:02 am):
Hal, Briscoe was an orphan. I know his aunties and grandmothers very well, have done so for 30 years or more. You could not get better, more responsible people. They tried their best. They have nothing of which to be ashamed.
The deceased was not a bad person. He slid into alcohol dependency despite the best efforts of his family. This is a measure of the immense power of local peer group pressure, especially amongst the largely unemployed male drinking circles, where initiated men pressure each other to join in the drinking, and quickly become dependent, then addicted. It is in the interests of the addicted to recruit more participants, and maintain their presence, thus ensuring they go on contributing to the shared kitty of cyclical, unconditional welfare funds which enables the virtually non-stop drinking by some.
The family has every right to sue, if that is their wish. I believe that they should be left to make this decision in private, without external pressure.
I agree with you other comments: it does boggle the mind that there can be a politician on either a local or Territory level not advocating for at least one day a week with no take-away grog sales, and a floor price. The police in court by their frankness earned a lot of respect and support, and it goes without saying must go on performing their most difficult work.

Recent Comments by Bob Durnan

Torrent of toxic Facebook posts after Mall melee
Russell Guy (Posted below on July 14, 2018 at 2:07 pm), as you and Sue Fielding (Posted below on July 14, 2018 at 8:46 am) both posit, “generational trauma, racism, alcohol abuse and domestic violence [are] some of the reasons for anti-social behavior among the young people responsible [for much crime and disturbance in our town]”.
What you and many others fail to recognise is that Chief Minister Michael Gunner, Territory Families Minister Dale Wakefield, and most other NT Cabinet members share this analysis. They are collectively taking serious steps to address these problems as quickly as possible.
They are doing this via several important measures, including by working in partnerships with Aboriginal community groups, organisations and remote communities to establish and support new out of home care and rehabilitation services; designing and building new therapeutic and educational rehabilitation institutions; as well as by assisting Alice Springs and other regional centres to develop positive directions and strategies.
As you observe, “Anger and frustration are two of the motivational issues, [as well as] mindless vandalism, which is existential for many kids”. However, anger, frustration and mindless vandalism, when permitted to flourish during the child’s development phases, can themselves become a driving habitual mode of operation and subconscious rationale for living.
These ingrained compulsions may be so strong that they become a huge obstacle to rehabilitation, and a powerful force undermining workers’ attempts to undertake generalised prevention strategies and early interventions with other young people who may be shaping up to replicate the patterns set by the dominant role models in their peer groups.
It is ignorant and patronising to suggest that [the politicians] are not completely aware of the need for investing “in healing, strengthening and skilling up young people”, and that they are not committed to achieving this as soon as possible.
The Chief Minister is providing strong support for both a national Aboriginal art gallery, and a national Indigenous cultural centre, in Alice Springs. He is also funding extra development of regional art centre facilities and staff accommodation in remote communities to help attract international tourists to spend time in Central Australia.
He is doing this to help provide direction for the town and region, responding to the requests by Indigenous leaders over many years.
His vision will extend the tourist season to year round activities, as these facilities will be air-conditioned and enable comfortable extended holiday breaks for Asian, European and North American visitors during the northern winter.
Trevor Shiell has some fine ideas, but he fails to see that the art gallery needs to be at the heart of the town, where it will maximise involvement not only of tourists, but also of townspeople on a daily basis, particularly local Aboriginal people, via jobs, training, social and cultural activities, and family events. A place to be very proud of, in a town that is providing futures for our youth, including Aboriginal youth.

Turn rock-throwing into backflips: how community can help
Nice exposition Rainer. Some very useful ideas and analysis there.
However, in relation to your advocacy for volunteer based programmes, such as on bus runs, night patrols or supervision of activities: I believe that it would be a grave error to make assumptions about the practicalities of these proposals.
Recent experience indicates that Alice does not have a reliable supply of such volunteers.
The midnight basketball came a cropper a few years back because of this factor.
The Uniting Church’s Meeting Place is not open very often for the same reason.
All the main existing youth spaces have appealed for volunteers at times, without much response.
A proposal to run Saturday night football for youth during the last Christmas holiday period failed for the same reason.
If a bus run or patrol is to operate through the night, I believe that it must be staffed by professionally trained, paid workers.
On the buses, a small core section of the client group are not easy to handle, even for the best professionals. Playing mind games with the driver becomes an integral part of their night’s fun. Chopping and changing explanations about what their problems and needs are, contradictory requests about where to go, and, in some cases, manufacturing reasons for not going being able to go home, are all part of the challenging behaviours displayed by some of the very alienated clients.
Threatening drivers and other staff may be a regular way for some to get extra attention. These rebellions sometimes become contagious within the cohort.
Your point about the need to employ workers who are fully cognizant of trauma informed theory and practice is, I believe, extremely relevant in this type of work.
For some young people, simply staying up all night and on the streets is their major act of defiance. They get a sense of achievement and success in their rebellion, including strong peer recognition, by this simple act.
The Department of Children and Families’ old YSOS unit (Youth Street Outreach Service) was very effective in dealing with these young people and their very difficult habits, before it was so tragically shut down by the Robyn Lambley/Terry Mills/Adam Giles budget cuts of 2012/13.
At the time, Giles said this service was no longer needed, because it was not dealing with a lot of clients.
Predictably, after its disbanding, problems associated with youth out at night rose inexorably, until things returned to the levels that had been occurring ten years ago, just before the YSOS was started.
It would now be very useful to find the people who worked on the YSOS, and get their views about what worked and why.

The millions and the misery
Jones (Posted June 10, 2018 at 12:46 pm), you display an unreasonably negative and incorrigibly antagonistic attitude towards the Central Australian Aboriginal Congress and its considerable achievements in the health field.
You may have heard the old adage that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing? This certainly applies to you. You continually use your ignorance as a cloak for confidently, and very unfairly, maligning Congress.
For your information:
1. The primary causes of most renal disease are very long term, and are mainly associated with poverty. The impacts of the chronic stresses from living in poverty begin in utero, then early childhood, with kidney stones and infections much more common. The stress burdens and infections contribute to weaknesses in organs such as the kidneys. These experiences are all imprinted on a person in ways that may lead to renal disease in later life, irrespective of what health service a person attends. As already discussed, a great deal of the global obesity / diabetes epidemic is socially determined, and health services can only do so much on their own.
2. The rate of end stage renal failure requiring dialysis amongst Congress’s own long term resident clients is vastly less than the rate in the rest of remote central Australian Aboriginal communities. The rate in remote areas is generally more than eight times greater than the town. If you are going to use data, you should use it correctly.
3. There is no basis for your statement that “the [overall] incidence of this terminal disease [i.e. renal failure] is a good measure of the success or failure of diabetes programs for which Congress has responsibility”. The situation is much more complex, as explained above, and health services can only do so much.
4. In light of the above facts, there is no validity in your statement that “the incidence of end stage [renal] disease is out of control despite the tens of millions of funding provided to Congress.” Rather, it would appear that Congress’s funded programmes have contributed to the rate of end stage renal disease being much lower in the long term Alice Springs Aboriginal population than it would have been without those programmes.
Jonesy, it is now incumbent upon you to relinquish your pathological denial of Congress’s achievements, and “agree that Congress has long been a leader and good practitioner in prevention and early intervention strategies and practices.”

The millions and the misery
Yes Evelyne Roullet, I have heard of HTLV-1. It would be hard to not have, given the recent publicity.
But no, I don’t know how much Congress, or anybody else, contributes for research and cure of it.

The millions and the misery
You are being perverse, Jones (Posted June 8, 2018 at 7:18 pm), and you are not nearly as well informed as you seem to think that you are.
Being a provocateur perhaps, just for the sake of it?
I pointed out that Congress (Central Australian Aboriginal Congress, or CAAC) has helped to greatly increase the average length of Aboriginal life expectancy in our region.
CAAC has played a leading role in achieving this increase in average life expectancy, not just by medical interventions, but also by fostering social and behavioural changes, such as by helping to ensure that when children are quite sick that they are brought to Congress by their parents, and are referred to hospital when needed.
You are possibly unaware that before Congress started providing health services in 1973, many sick Aboriginal babies were not being treated in the hospital, for a range of reasons.
Most important was the fact that the hospital was only desegregated in 1969.
Added to that was the fact that the hospital had also formerly played a key role in informing the Native Welfare Branch about the presence of mixed race children in the hospital, or where they were living, and this often lead to their removal.
Thus there were some powerful legacy issues.
In this context, many parents had been very reluctant to take their children to the hospital.
Although you agreed with me about CAAC helping to greatly extend the average rate of Aboriginal life expectancy in our region, you then went on to condemn CAAC for not preventing diabetes, and for allegedly not taking effective steps to intervene in its progress.
These are clearly unreasonable accusations on your part, based on a simplistic understanding of the complexity of the relevant issues, and the history of the situation with diabetes.
Much of what you say about this matter is factually untrue.
It is clear that you have not looked at the CAAC annual reports carefully, otherwise you would know the proportion of Congress diabetic patients who have their blood sugar tested regularly each year is quite high. Further data shows that a high proportion of patients have excellent sugar control.
These figures and many other key performance indicators (KPIs) are published every year in Congress’s annual reports.
This is in stark contrast to most other general practices, which rarely publish such data in their annual reports.
Please have another, more careful look at the CAAC annual reports, which are available on line.
You will find a wealth of information which you and other interested members of the community can use to judge the success of Congress.
As for prevention of diabetes, it has a very long development period.
Most of the CAAC diabetes prevention programmes are also long term by their very nature, and begin with trying to ensure healthy pregnancies, healthy births, and good early childhood health and emotional wellbeing programmes.
CAAC is now providing these services to many of its clients.
However, some of these programmes have only been funded in the last 10 years, some of them only starting quite recently. Several of them are not yet funded in many remote Aboriginal communities.
As you may be aware, the diabetes epidemic is a massive global health crisis that has been caused by what is known as our “obesogenic” social environment, which is rich in high fat, high sugar, high salt, high carb ultra-processed foods, and increasingly sedentary, inactive lifestyles.
Congress alone cannot be expected to change this.
There is much that is still needed to be done in public health terms.
For example, Congress has been advocating for a sugar glucose tax of 20% for more than a decade.
Congress has long advocated that funds raised by such a tax should be hypothecated, or reserved, to be spent solely on a subsidy to ensure fresh fruit and vegies are affordable in all remote communities.
This key position and advocacy has been Congress policy well before the AMA and other peak medical groups around the world adopted it.
Congress removed soft drink machines back in the late nineties, something that most of Australia’s public hospitals and major medical centres are only starting to do now, 20 years later.
Another key endeavour, where CAAC has had some success in recent years, is in the area of reform of the NT Government’s regulation of alcohol consumption and sales, in order to reduce the average level of consumption amongst problem drinkers and those at risk of becoming problem drinkers.
This is widely acknowledged to be a necessary pre-requisite before many further advances in the preventative programmes area can be expected to take place.
You can’t have it both ways, Jones.
You should admit that Congress has long been a leader and good practitioner in prevention and early intervention strategies and practices.

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