Further in reply to Rex Neindorf (Posted April 27, 2012 …

Comment on Grog, residential land, law & order: More power to Alice under Country Liberals, says Terry Mills. by Bob Durnan.

Further in reply to Rex Neindorf (Posted April 27, 2012 at 11:49 pm):
Rex, Like you, I too am much more concerned with the wellbeing of children and the other innocent or vulnerable victims of alcohol abusers, than I am with the wellbeing of those alcohol consumers who are the perpetrators of violence and neglect (and, I imagine, most other PAAC members share these same priorities).
I suspect that you are not bothering to read either PAAC’s or my comments and posts very carefully if you think I (and most other PAAC members) do not share these concerns of yours about the wellbeing of children and other victims.
(Please note that although I am a member of PAAC, I am very careful not to write on its behalf unless I have been delegated to do so, and I clearly state so when I do write on its behalf. I write all these comments on Alice Springs News threads as a private individual).
However, unlike you I am also concerned at the costs accruing to society and government from the continued high levels of dysfunction and harms caused by all those who drink alcohol to such excess that they cause harms to others and themselves.

Bob Durnan Also Commented

Grog, residential land, law & order: More power to Alice under Country Liberals, says Terry Mills.
Reply to Rex Neindorf’s comment (which was posted by Rex April 27, 2012 at 11:49 pm):
It is important for us all to remember that not all those drinking to excess (i.e. “abusing alcohol”) act violently, neglect children, or commit criminal actions; this includes some who may be drinking in public and irritating us on an almost daily basis, whenever they are able.
On what basis are these people to be consigned to your gulag, possibly never to be released? Just because their presence annoys you, or because you are afraid that one day they might commit a criminal act?
The idea that you could really solve many problems with Terry’s “plan” to lock up hundreds of alcohol abusers and thus abolish the harms once and for all is ludicrous. Terry’s “plan” would do nothing to change most of the factors which have in the past led to most of the excessive consumption of alcohol and drugs, and they would continue to do so, placing new waves of apprentice alcohol abusers on the streets as fast as Terry’s gulag was absorbing the tattered remnants of their older counterparts.
On the other hand, reduction in the supply and availability of the substances would be a definite contribution to reducing these problems; it would impact on the rate of production of new addicts at the same time that it would reduce the impacts of the pre-existing abusers, and would be relatively low cost to boot.
Your simple “solution” sounds dangerously like other dangerous authoritarian “solutions” of the recent past, Rex. Putting the rights of children ahead of the rights of neglectful adults should not, and does not have to, mean denying any rights and consideration to those adults, especially where their main offence has been to become addicted to legally available substances which have been funded by tax payers via our lamentable system of socially-inappropriate welfare provisions, and made available through an oversupply of fiercely competing and completely legal drug dealers, conventionally known as alcohol retailers.


Grog, residential land, law & order: More power to Alice under Country Liberals, says Terry Mills.
In reply to Rex Neindorf (Posted April 27, 2012 at 11:49 pm):
Rex, I don’t know exactly how many members PAAC has. There are quite a few organisations and churches, as well as many individuals. You should direct your enquiry to the PAAC convenor, via the website. She is currently in Cambodia for a few weeks, along with a number of other individual PAAC members, lending a hand in an orphanage and touring some remote regions which have poor email access, but I’m sure she will get back to you on her return.


Grog, residential land, law & order: More power to Alice under Country Liberals, says Terry Mills.
Looks like back to the future with Terry and his Gang of Simple Pranksters – that same old seventies show.
It was a disaster then, and will be the same again this time: no population health approach, no serious community development or diversionary programs, no systematic prevention or early intervention strategies, just reactionary, non-evidence-based foolishness.
First he wants to feed angry populist payback prejudice by advocating more grog outlets (on the remote communities again, and that was a complete disaster in the early seventies, leading to massive increases in drinking rates, addictions and violence, and increased visitation of drinkers to towns like Alice to seek even more grog than could be obtained in remote communities).
Then he wants to feed fierce populist payback prejudice again: more prisons and imprisonment (under the cloak of ‘mandated rehab’ and ‘prison rehab farms’).
Third, he wants to lull the fearsome populist beast by feeding its sentimental prejudice, throwing good money after bad: more funding into rehabilitation programs, the best of which have a very low success rate (something that Terry’s fellow travelers like the Browns and Rex Neindorf appear to recognise when they opine that if the mandatory rehab doesn’t work, or lasts for a very long time, or even forever, then they wouldn’t mind at all. This obviously means taxpayers bearing the cost of long term, even permanent, incarceration of the mandated rehabilitation clients living forever in their secure facilities).
Terry and the Pranksters have made a great show of being liberals who are against the NTER Intervention and against alcohol restrictions, but when you look at the detail here of their alcohol policies they seem to be [seeking] to solve everything by the same old simple and brutal methods: putting ever more police on the streets; cracking down hard on public disorder; imposing deadly “solutions” on troublesome minorities in remote parts; abolishing progressive programs aimed at increasing personal responsibility and agency; and tossing the troubled victims of previous government policies into prison farms (which will double as long term internment camps), and throwing away the keys.
Has Terry actually stopped to think deeply about what he is saying?
How do we stop this madness?


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Given that the majority of NT road deaths are normally the result of single vehicle roll-overs on remote roads, it is questionable whether more intensive traffic policing in Alice would necessarily produce this good result as claimed.
We would need a much bigger sample and more details of the individual accidents to really get an idea about what is actually going on here.


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Hal, (Posted April 14, 2019 at 1:29 am): Don’t be so disingenuous. It is obvious from the article that CLC staff have been trying very hard to get permission to act.
They have now made their frustrations known to the relevant authorities, who are able to step in.
My point is that your criticism should have been aimed at those responsible (the traditional owners in question), not at the CLC as an organisation, as the staff are trying to do their job and get something done about the situation.
I was at both Mulga Bore and Angula a little over a week ago, and found very few people at Mulga, and none at Angula.
There were no dead horses that I saw, or smell of dead horses, around the houses then at either place, but there may have been some elsewhere. Of course the carcasses should be disposed of, wherever they are; that is what the writer and the CLC are trying to achieve.


Massive horse deaths now a risk to humans
Hal: How would the Land Council stand legally if it were to destroy the property of a set of traditional owners without their permission? The CLC does not own the horses.
They are either the property of individual traditional owners and traditional owner family groups, or of persons who have contracts with the TOs to allow their horses to be on the TOs’ land.
Or else they are the responsibility of the particular Land Trust trustees on whose land they are located.
Legally the CLC as a statutory body can only consult and advise the traditional owners, and act on their instructions. It cannot make decisions for them without their permission.


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