Very interesting Nicole – obviously you think you are right …

Comment on The eternal chase: songlines of the Seven Sisters by Researcher.

Very interesting Nicole – obviously you think you are right and have the whole story.
What is absolutely correct is that informants to the researchers, (i.e. the bosses for the corroboree and country you are speaking about) gave those researchers the stories, site names, associated skin names and genealogies for those places.
Are you saying that you know more now in 2018, than the informants of the 1890s – 1920s and 1930s – 1960s did?
While it’s true they didn’t reveal entire stories in some instances, they entrusted the researchers because at the time and due to the pressures of European arrival, culture was under threat.
Those old people showed complete agency in revealing their culture for its survival, and future study and research by those Aboriginal people interested in learning.
I encourage you to keep reading before drawing absolute conclusions.

Researcher Also Commented

The eternal chase: songlines of the Seven Sisters
Dear Nicole,
A good post, but some corrections.
• “The caterpillars are not the ceremony holders of the Yeperenye Dreaming”.
You’re right. The local estate group for Tjoritja were the Utnerrengatye people.
All are of the Peltharre / Kngwarraye subsection. This (and the boundaries of the Tjoritjarenye people – who numbered about 40 at the start of the 20th century) is well documented in historical records from Spencer and Gillen and then supported by TGH Strehlow some 30 to 40 years later.
The Mparntwe estate is the Tjoritja estate. The researchers were given this information by the original TOs for Alice Springs at the earliest contact times.
• “The Yeperenye Dreaming is the ceremony that won title for the Arrernte people over Alice Springs”.
Alice Springs is Utnerrengatye. As is the main caterpillar dreaming for Anthwerrke (Emily Gap), and into Alice Springs via the caterpillar / dogs story.
Emily Gap nature park has recently been incorrectly renamed “Yeperenye”. Originally Alice Springs was Penangke / Peltharre (four sections of the kin groups) until the early 20th century when the local Arrernte adopted the current eight skin system. Again, this is heavily documented.
• “Mbantua is not a real clan group”.
Mparntwe is a clan group, and is a site name – however it is not near St Philip’s school. Originally however, you are correct in saying this land was Tjoritjarenye and belonged to those people. It is correct that there are three clan groups; Irplme; Ampetyane / Ngale, Tjoritja (Mparntwe); Peltharre Kngwarraye, and Ntulye; Penangke / Pengkarte.
The Ingkarte for Tjoritja was King Charley, aka Irrapmwe Peltharre, at the turn of the 19th century. His Aknganentye site was Ntyarlkele Tyaneme (old judge’s house) which is where he derived his other name, Ntyarlke. He had brothers and sisters are from whom the Tjoritja / Mparntwe people descend from today. His son now has a town camp named after him, Mpwetyerre, (Abbotts camp), which is also a site name near there.
You make some very good points in the rest of your argument regarding how disenfranchised Arrernte people are (TOs of this area, and neighboring).


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